Podcast Felicity & Aileen
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Greg: Welcome to the Construction podcast. Awesome to have you on Today we’ve got two special guests and I’m really excited about this episode. You might remember, if you’ve been following the podcast for a while, we had a guest on Dr. Gretchen Gagle. This was probably two or three months ago. And Dr. Gretchen come on and was really talking about the problem with the construction industry and women in construction and how there’s a real lack of women in construction, both in the trade roles and in the professional roles as well. And we were discussing how do we solve that problem. What’s really interesting though, is.
Greg: As since we’ve had that discussion, there’s been some little bit of feedback actually from some women that I’m working with currently and others that we’ve seen online. They’re actually crushing it in construction at the moment and we thought it’d be really good to have a podcast episode just highlighting what some women in construction are actually doing.
Greg: Some of the amazing things.
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And we just hope this podcast is just gonna be inspiring for all the women out there that I’ve. Running a construction business are currently in the trades themselves or are looking to get into construction. So I want to just introduce you to two guests. First of all, we’ve got Felicity, who is the Sydney builder Chick.
Greg: Hello Felicity. Thanks for joining us.
Felicity: Hello. Thank you for having me.
Greg: Awesome. And we’ve got Aileen on as well. So Aileen is in the Aileen. Aileen, thanks for coming on.
Aileen: You’re welcome. Lovely to meet you both.
Greg: Awesome. Good stuff. Aileen runs Andrew’s Construction Limited in the Aileen and they do mainly home renovations.
Greg: So loft conversions big extensions, you know, big million pound sort of plus plus projects. What’s the size of projects you mainly work on? Felicity?
Felicity: A bit of everything, honestly. So at the moment we’re in the project home, so the new build. So those projects can be anywhere between your average house price or more if the customers want a little bit more custom.
Felicity: So yeah, that, that’s what we’ve been on mainly recently.
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But yeah, a couple of renos here and there, but we are mainly targeting the project homes.
Greg: Awesome. That’s great. And one thing just with Felicity that I was really impressed with is her online social media presence. So if you are on Instagram or Yeah, I think Instagram’s your main channel, isn’t it?
Greg: We’ve got you on Facebook as well. Yeah. Instagram’s a big one. Yeah. On
Felicity: All platforms, but Instagram’s definitely the bigger one.
Greg: Yeah. And noticed on there that you’ve recently won an award. Do you wanna tell us about that?
Felicity: Yeah. Another, you know, celebrating the small wins, but I got nominated for Advocate of the Year and for me to be nominated for something like that is amazing because I was actually diagnosed with dyslexia at a really young age.
Felicity: So for me to be, so to speak, an advocate for women in the industry is. Like I was blown away, like really me. So yeah, me actually going to the award time because I was like, why not? It’s a great time to get together with other women in the industry.
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And yeah, when they called my name up to say that I’ve won it, I was like, oh my gosh.
Felicity: I was thrilled.
Greg: Love it. Yeah. That’s so good. So yeah really powerful and very inspiring. Let’s just talk about the problem that we’ve got in the industry at the moment that I’m sure you are both very aware of. Two, two main problems. The first problem is there’s obviously a huge skill shortage that affects both the Aileen and Australia.
Greg: It’s, it, you know, actually to be fair, it’s a global skill shortage, and I think this has really happened because. Our generation or Felicity, you’re a lot younger than me and Aileen, but the, our generation we probably weren’t encouraged to get into trades or into construction. It was more you know, it was the.com boom, let’s all get into computers and now I guess we’ve got the same problem again with AI coming up.
Greg: So we’ve got a skill shortage for some reason being a trades person. Isn’t necessarily the route that everyone goes down. And combined with the skill shortage, we’ve also got low female participation in the construction industry.
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Before we jump into why we’ve got those issues, I’d just like to maybe just get you two to introduce yourselves.
Greg: How did you actually end up finding yourselves getting into construction? Maybe Aileen, can we ask you that first?
Aileen: My husband is at Brick Layer, so when I met him, he was actually working in the trades. I was a maths teacher at the time, but my background is software and I have I have a master’s in project management and there became a time when it was just actually when we met, we were really interested in property development.
Aileen: We’ve always, we both had Sarah Bei property ladder books on our shelves and. I’ve always been interested in making a house look amazing. So when I decided to work with my husband, it was. It was almost a decision that was made for me because I felt like I had to come in and support him. However, I’ve really made this role my own.
Aileen: So I’ve come into the industry. I’m a project manager with my husband.
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We run Andrews Construction group and we do Highend Developments in Le North Leeds, Harrogate.
Greg: Felicity maybe we can ask you the same question. So how did you get into construction? What sort of sparked your interest in it?
Felicity: Definitely school. I I was one of the first females to choose construction as an elective.
Felicity: And yeah, being diagnosed with dyslexia, I wasn’t really good with everything else at school. My grades were low. And as you said before, they really do drive university rather than. Paces or trade pathways. So I was very intrigued to try something new. And yeah, got really good grades through construction and I was like, why would I give this up?
Felicity: So then I started going down work placement roots, trying out everything within the industry and yeah, absolutely love carpentry. I was like, why waste time at high school? Let’s go out there and get ourselves an apprenticeship. And I haven’t looked back since. And I definitely feel like getting your. Cert three in carpentry and then your builders is a stepping stone to grow in really in the industry.
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Greg: Yeah. That’s incredible. And what I think is interesting as well is so you’ve actually got a builder’s license, haven’t you, Felicity? Yes. Is that right? I do. I’m
Felicity: still getting it signed off with my boss, but I’ve done the theory and the two year supervision. It’s just getting the actual license to say I actually do have my license.
Felicity: But yeah, no, other than that, everything is green light to go.
Greg: That’s awesome. So it’s it’s a lot more difficult in Australia to get a builder’s license than it is in the Aileen. In fact, you don’t actually need a license in the Aileen to be a builder, which is crazy considering what we’re actually doing to people’s homes.
Greg: But just to give the audience context, how old are you, Sid? Do you mind me asking that?
Felicity: Yeah, I’m I just had a mind blank of how old I was too. I keep thinking I’m 21, but no, I’m 22.
Greg: So to get your carpentry qualification, your cert three, and then to get, go and get a builder’s license after that and about to get that’s incredible.
Greg: That’s you know, super quick and an amazing achievement. Thank you. We understand why you’ve won that award and you certainly deserve that. So that’s awesome.
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Could I just ask was there many women doing the TAFE trade course with you in carpentry? Or you the only one? I was the
Felicity: only one in my class.
Greg: Yeah. Okay. That’s interesting, isn’t it? Yeah. So yeah,
Felicity: definitely.
Greg: And how did you find that
Felicity: at the start? A little bit intimidating. I mean, you’re going from a classroom where you’ve got girls and boys, and then you’re going onsite where it’s just purely. Males and they’re going to a classroom, same thing, but mixed ages.
Felicity: You’ve got mature apprentices, young apprentices, and then me. So I definitely really try to, I feel like a very productive day on site. It goes quicker when you get along with everyone. So I had a good relationship with my work colleagues as well as my TAFE mates to, you know, blend. Why do we need to have the diversity of, oh, she’s a girl.
Felicity: It’s oh yeah you know, everyone just gets involved and it’s good. I never really got excluded, but at the start it was a lot to take in. ’cause I think I put, I got into my own head saying that, oh, I’m the only girl. What am I gonna do? And I think you’ve really gotta get yourself outta that mindset and be like, take advantage that I am the only girl.
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Felicity: Let’s do this. Yeah, the boys loved it and I loved it really. So I just wanna see more women in tafe.
Greg: Yeah, a hundred percent. And did that I know you said the boys loved it. Did that follow through to site or did you get treated differently when you actually went out on site?
Felicity: Definitely when I was a first year, it was really hard.
Felicity: I definitely felt like chucking the towel in a couple of times, but I had to really teach myself as long as my as well as my parents driving into me. It’s not the industry, it’s the people you work with. It’s the job. Not so much the job, but it’s the work crew you are working with. It might not be the job itself that’s bad.
Felicity: It’s the people you’re working with. Driving myself every day that it’s just this crew that I’m working with. They really did give me a hard time when I was a first year, but I picked myself up and I’m like this is what I wanna do. Maybe it’s changing paths, so let’s change different crews to obviously keep my apprenticeship going.
Felicity: But now, oh my gosh, I have the best relationship with the boys on site.
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And it’s a, especially to the older guys, it’s a father daughter sort of relationship. And then to the younger ones, it’s like brother, sister, it’s, we give it back to each other, but it’s. So friendly and it, that’s how it should be really.
Greg: Yeah. Love that. That’s that’s awesome. And what about yourself, Aileen? So when you are obviously you’re not, you are more of a manager of the business, but how do you get treated on site when you’re talking to the guys or talking to clients about site issues? How do you find things?
Aileen: I think age with age comes a lot of confidence and I think for me, I don’t really notice that I’m a woman walking to site. I think that people treat you how you let them treat you. So I think that’s the most important thing. Your mindset is everything. I treat everybody with respect and I expect the same in return.
Aileen: I think it’s always really good to learn a little about a bit about everybody. So you can ask a question, you know, you can have a bit of a laugh. You don’t see me on site as often as I should be, but I really do enjoy going to site. But I find that everybody’s really welcom.
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I, there’s a load of young people as well on sites, and I think there’s always a great opportunity to have a bit of fun.
Aileen: So it’s not a, you know, it’s not always serious. It’s difficult sometimes I think when you ha you have to go to site and you’re pointing out issues, for example, health and safety issues. But I think that if your business is structured in such a way whereby you maintain a high level of.
Aileen: Requirements throughout, then it’s not really, it’s not, it doesn’t really cause any problems When you point something out, they’re expecting it.
Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. That’s great. Okay just thinking back to the episode I had with Dr. Gretchen, one, one thing she mentioned was this unconscious bias that we find in the industry.
Greg: That people, you know, it is that word, isn’t it? They unconsciously don’t realize that they’re doing it. Have you noticed that at all when you’re in a site meeting or a client meeting potentially? Have you ever found that maybe you are not taken seriously when or maybe you are ignored over a bit of advice where you think you’ve got the answer?
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Greg: How do you find that Felicity?
Felicity: Oh, definitely. Look, we are still facing this issue a little bit here, but it could be, we have a mature aged apprentice and I’m still very young as well, so it could. Be, I don’t know, for example, a 28-year-old and he’s a second year, and I’m fully qualified over here. Me telling him, oh, this is how you do it.
Felicity: If we do it like this in a really friendly way, because I feel like I’m still learning as well. The industry’s changing every day. So just, I maybe say do it. They can sometimes be a bit like, hang on a minute here. Whoa. And I just simply say at the end of the day, look, it’s my job.
Felicity: I’m the team leader here. I’m the team carpenter. It’s my job to get along with everyone. Have a smooth day and get the job done at the end of the day. So whether you wanna listen to me or not, this job needs to get completed. So this is how you do it. I feel like. The best way when you’re a team leader is not to talk down to people, talk to people or not at them.
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Felicity: So just a really friendly approach on this is how we do things around here, especially when they’re still learning, or maybe if we do this or that. Most people would be like, okay, cool, and they’ll learn and they’ll teach you a couple of things. But you do have the people where it’s don’t tell me what to do.
Felicity: It’s look, at the end of the day, I’m the team leader. This is what we have to do to get the job done.
Greg: Yeah, that’s a good way of approaching it. What about yourself, Aileen? Have you noticed an unconscious bias when dealing with people on site or clients?
Aileen: My background is from corporate world and I think the issue that you’re pointing out isn’t just construction.
Aileen: I think this issue is. A global issue and it’s in most industries. So I think that women have always had to I suppose, work a little bit harder, maybe speak a little bit louder if they wanna be heard, but I think again, if you come across as somebody who knows what they’re talking about and you do it in.
Aileen: The correct manner. I think that’s the way to get through to people. It’s maybe easier for me ’cause I’m the one paying everybody every week, so that might make it a little bit easier.
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But in the same respect, I think that, you know, for me, I work with a lot of residential customers and there’s often a husband and a wife, and the wife loves having me around, you know, because I, you know, Al Backer.
Aileen: I’ll be in the situation where I’m like, no, you need to spend 40 grand on your kitchen. And she’s saying, yes, thank you. So situation with the customers, it works really well. But yeah, on sites I can definitely imagine how difficult it is and I think all young apprentices, boys and girls will probably face that.
Aileen: ’cause you definitely get this old, you know, this old kind of, I’ve been doing this 50 years, you’re not gonna tell me what to do. I think manager is. Often face that task. You know, like we have a new manager starting soon. And you know, he’s a bit older but he is still gotta face maybe that issue when he comes across people who’ve been doing it for the last 50 years.
Aileen: So it’s all about how you approach the issue, I think.
Greg: Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. And just listening to both your responses there, I think the word that really lands on me for if I was describing both of you, is just confidence.
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You’re both very confident in your own abilities and who you are as women.
Greg: And I think that’s, that obviously comes across when you’re dealing with people, which is so important because people can sense that. And if you’re confident and you back yourself then people respect you more, which is what we want. Felicity do do you think attitudes are improving in Australia to, towards women in construction?
Felicity: Oh, massively. Massively. When I first started, as I was saying before, I was the only female in my construction class, and it was very a taboo topic. But now it’s becoming so. More likely. Like it’s not a oh it’s oh wow, you know, there’s a girl on site and she’s having a crack and she’s doing this.
Felicity: So I definitely think it is slowly starting to come out as you know, this is the new normal. Let’s make it the new normal rather than, oh, you know, so it definitely is changing, but we still have such a long way to go.
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Greg: Yeah, a hundred percent. Interestingly enough I think obviously I coach a number of businesses, mainly, I mean, we’re coaching Aussie businesses, but mainly Aileen.
Greg: So I’ve got a lot of experience in the Aileen. I actually think the Aileen is very much behind Australia with women entering construction as in the trades. I know a lot of women here and young women who are getting into trades, and it’s I think. Is a more lucrative path here in Australia than it is in the Aileen.
Greg: I think you get paid, you definitely get paid more here as a trades person. Yeah. And and I know women that are doing it, whereas in the Aileen I don’t actually, I personally, I don’t know any I. Young girls at school that actually want to get into a trade aile. Do. Do you know anyone that that’s doing trades that are women?
Aileen: It’s interesting that you say that because I was actually a secondary school teacher and it was kind of considered, I it’s the whole education system here, because in the school system here, if you were not good at maths and English and you weren’t gonna get your grades.
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They had a path for boys and they had a path for girls and it still seems to be that way, which is really upsetting.
Aileen: But the exciting thing for me is I do a lot of networking and I do a lot of like female only networking and there’s a lot of young girls turning up and we’re trying to, you know, we’re trying to actively find these young girls and there’s a lot of people like property development. Develop who are female and they’re coaching these young girls now to try and get into the property education arena.
Aileen: But also I think what it’s really opening up is. That the trades is a really great, exciting place for everyone to come and work. It’s not just a lack of getting young women we’re struggling with to get young males to try and do this job. I do think this is going to change. However, I think with AI and how the world is changing, that the trades is looking far more lucrative.
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Aileen: And when you get into, a work environment and there’s a lack of other people doing it well, then you’re going to be able to ask for more money. So I think people are gonna really open up to this soon. I think it’s gonna become really exciting. I see a lot of young lads, especially in the joinery sector where they’re coming in and they’re doing their training, but then they’re kind of veering off to do their own property development, and that’s really exciting.
Aileen: You know, they’re starting young. You know, some of them are 21, 22 and they’ve got a whole load of properties that they’ve kind of, they’ve developed themselves. So I think for me, the school education system needs to completely change. We need to be educating young women and more young men that they need to be going into this sector.
Aileen: But that really starts with the government. So I think things will change. I think people are gonna start to realize there’s gonna be a lot of money to be made in this industry.
Greg: Yeah I completely agree with you. I obviously I’m massive into AI and follow it hugely.
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And all the podcasts I’m following and all the big influences a lot of ’em are all saying that, you know, if any industry is gonna be impacted last, it’s the trades, you know, that it’s, the robots aren’t coming anytime soon.
Greg: Yeah I completely agree with you, Aileen. I think that the industry is gonna look hugely lucrative. As we see AI take over in the next few years when a lot of other jobs are gonna completely disappear, but the trades certainly aren’t. So Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. Let’s just talk about shift gears a little bit and talk about leadership and culture in the business.
Greg: Aile as someone who is an owner of a business and leads people tell me how you create respect for people. You know, what, how do you create respect in your business?
Aileen: I think the most important thing that I’ve learned this year is mindset is everything. So once you have the correct mindset, that really is the first.
Aileen: Place that you start. And I think if you are trying to lead people, there’s many different leadership styles. Mine used to be very directive, which is do this is the way you need to do it.
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But I’m trying to be more of a coach where, whereby I’m leading by example. So for example, we’ve just recruited a new operations manager.
Aileen: And it was really interesting. He’s come to sight and I’ve watched him speak to other people and lead and it’s all about his knowledge and his confidence and just taking no nonsense. There’s nobody on that site who’s gonna say, I’m not gonna do what you say. And it’s really lovely watching other people and how they do it.
Aileen: For me and my husband you know, we’ve kind of, we’ve grown this business. Quickly. And we’ve kind of had to, we’ve kind of had to, I suppose, black off on some of the leadership on site, and we can see that it really does need a lot of leadership and direction on sites. But for me, leadership is not about being a director, just telling people what to do.
Aileen: It’s really about setting objectives, helping people and coaching them to deliver what you asked them to deliver.
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Greg: Yeah. Yeah that’s great. And one part of leadership is and this is big in the industry at the moment, is supporting mental health and wellbeing on site.
Greg: And leaders need to be able to recognize that. Felicity just maybe thinking about that on site at the moment. Do you, how do you feel that’s going in Australia with supporting mental health and wellbeing? Do you think, ’cause sometimes the construction industry can be such a dinosaur with this sort of stuff and ignore it and ppo it and say, oh, you know, just get on with it.
Greg: Man up a bit, or woman up. Yeah. How do you how do you find it going?
Felicity: Look, I guess every company is different, but I really try to set an example that it is okay to not be okay. Like you are gonna have days where you just don’t wanna do it or you know, you wanna hang up the tool bag or just anything really.
Felicity: And I think having, as going back to what we said before, having a really good close relationship with your boss, your work colleagues.
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It makes you more vulnerable to wanting to talk about that topic as such, and it definitely isn’t a. A taboo topic in, I know specifically in Australia because there’s so much awareness around tradies mental health.
Felicity: We have programs, we have meetings, we have our trade mates we have everything. And I think even Bunning’s warehouse gatherings we have so much support that. You are not alone in it. We’ve all been down and the best advice I can tell say is, I know it’s hard, but work should be a safe space.
Felicity: Sometimes coming home can be a bit chaotic or it might be vice versa for other people work’s, chaotic home’s a safe space. Regardless what environment you are in, I definitely feel like you gotta speak out about it and have each other’s backs. I’ve had so many work colleagues be like, oh, I’m not doing really well today, and I’m like, and you know what that is okay.
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Felicity: You are so valid to feel like this. Let’s think of solutions of how to overcome this feeling like, I don’t know, little things to, I don’t wanna do that. I’m like, let me help you get through it. Or, oh, I don’t wanna listen. You know, let’s change the radio and put some good tunes on and get this day done.
Felicity: Like little things like that can honestly make the day just go, not so much the day, but make them feel better.
Greg: Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. Good advice there. And Felicity, you’ve obviously as you’ve come through your apprenticeship, you’ve been led by people and been trained from your experience so far what does good leader leadership look like to you? What makes a good leader, do you think?
Greg: What traits do those people display?
Felicity: I’ve definitely been taught so many different ways of leadership throughout my apprenticeship being through multiple different employees employers. But I feel like the best way is very one-on-one. You pick up. The skillset of the person who’s showing you.
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Felicity: So if you are unsure about something, ask the question, why do we do it like this? How do we do it? Just everything. You can never ask too many questions. I feel. I feel the more questions you ask, the better because you are asking everything about a specific topic or a task. One-on-one. If you are unsure about this, hey, can you please come over here and show me how to do it?
Felicity: So rather than working in, I know sometimes it can be hard when everyone’s on the go and you’re like, big group setting. Let’s go. I can, I definitely can come from both backgrounds of. Big groups and then small groups, but asking the questions, asking teammates getting more one-on-one time, whether it’s with an apprentice that is highly skilled or your employer or your boss.
Felicity: But one-on-one I feel is so key. When you’re picking up the skillset, actually hyperfocused on what they’re doing, you then pick up that skillset by really watching.
Greg: Yeah that’s great. Aileen as well. Let me ask you the same question ’cause you’ve obviously. Experienced this in a wide range of industries, you know, in your corporate world as well, but what do you think makes a good leader?
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Greg: What have you, can you think of, you know, leaders you’ve worked under where you thought, yeah, they were good because what do you think? Yes,
Aileen: absolutely. And I speak to a lot of people my age who have good leaders in their careers and, you know, you start to kind of build up a picture of what works and what doesn’t work.
Aileen: I think. Your leader is somebody that should be aspirational to you, somebody that guides you and helps you to want to be the be a better person. Somebody that doesn’t put you down if you ask questions, somebody that supports you. Even when you get it wrong, you know, and somebody that you feel that you could go to.
Aileen: I mean, I’ve certainly worked with many different leaders and at the time, I think when you’re younger, at the time you don’t realize. When it’s a negative situation, I think the most important thing that you can do for yourself is change the situation if you are working with somebody that you don’t feel that you’re learning from, because everything that you do in life, nobody knows everything.
Aileen: Nobody knows at all. You should be able to ask questions.
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You should be able to say, I have a career path that I’d like to go down. And if you have a passion for something, nobody should take that away from you. So I think that’s the most important thing a leader should bring out. The best in you.
Aileen: When you say leaders as well. I mean, in my position, you know, I find it difficult. I didn’t have a leader up until the beginning of this year, so I’ve actively gone out and got a number of coaches. You being one of them, Greg. And I feel like my husband at the time didn’t really realize what I was doing.
Aileen: He thought I was just spending money on loads of different things. But he said to me last night, he said, I can’t believe where we are as a business now. And it’s because we have followed other leaders, people that have. Been there, done that. We’ve asked loads of questions and we’ve done the things that we’ve been told to do.
Aileen: And it’s actually it’s not difficult. You know what I mean? If you ask the right questions and you are stuck in a situation and you wanna change and people who’ve done it before can tell you do this. If you do those things, you will quickly start to see massive changes, and that is in your personal life and in your business.
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Greg: That’s fantastic and thanks for the plug as well, Aileen. Let’s talk about the the next generation then. So there, you know, there might be girls, women listening to this that want to get into construction. We obviously, as we said earlier, there’s a massive shortage of trades in the industry, so this is a huge problem that we’ve got to try and plug.
Greg: Felicity, how do you think we can encourage more young women to get into construction?
Felicity: From past experiences, support, we need to be supporting our apprentices so much more. The cost of living, the cost of cars, tolls, fuel tools, like everything. I feel like if we really support our apprentices have.
Felicity: Pre apprenticeships at school, helping them get a couple of more courses in more experience. So then they are wanting to go onsite and they’re more driven to do it because they know exactly not exactly what they’re doing, but they’ve had the support at high school to continue on a better system of if you unfortunately get made redundant or whatnot.
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Felicity: Helping the transition into another job quickly to keep the taste rolling so they’re not falling back. I feel like we do put a pause on the apprenticeships and that’s taken away from. When you get older, when you complete your apprenticeship, you’ve just lost that time because we’re not rolling things out quicker.
Felicity: I definitely think we need to be supporting our apprentices more on site, whether it be mental health or physically and mentally to be able to help them get through the apprenticeship quicker, whether it be support with their bosses or support financially, having. A what is, what’s that thing called, like a scholarship or anything out there for people to be able to successfully complete the apprenticeship?
Greg: Yeah. Apprenticeships is so key, isn’t it? And it is, you know, the whole concept of an apprenticeship is absolutely amazing, but just sometimes it just doesn’t get it’s just not action the right way, you know, which is a real let down, which is a shame.
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And it and you really see when someone’s had a good apprenticeship, you can really notice it throughout their career.
Greg: You know, it’s incredible compared to those that maybe get a little bit mistreated in their apprenticeship. Yeah, a hundred percent agree with that.
Felicity: Definitely.
Greg: Aileen, so obviously I didn’t realize you were a school teacher, so you’re the best place to answer this, but, so where, what do you think about schools or employers or parents even how do you think they need to take the lead in this area to get more women into construction?
Aileen: The most important thing I’ve learned in my career and looking at other children is everybody should be supported to do what they’re passionate about. So if you are showing a natural ability. For any type of industry, that’s what you should do, because you’re not gonna be successful in doing something that your parents just tell you to do.
Aileen: That’s what happened to me. I ended up doing something that, you know, I wasn’t really interested in it, it’s not caused any problems. It’s just taken me longer to get where I wanted to be. I think I think the most important thing is that. There should be more opportunities.
[00:29:00]
There’s certainly not enough opportunities for women in trades in this country, and I’ve seen that firsthand.
Aileen: Yeah, so first of all, opening up more opportunities, more courses. I’ve hired a number of print apprentices in our BI business, and it’s really a lot of paperwork. It’s a lot of hard work, loads of form filling, loads of backwards and forwards, and I always think to myself. If they could make this easier, I would have way more apprentices working for me.
Aileen: It’s just such a lot of admin to take somebody on. I really wish that was simplified and it just takes us, the process being simplified. I think that I’m looking at this as not just people going to sites. I think there’s many opportunities in. Construction. So you’re looking at architects design, you’re looking at people who are, I’ve written a big long list here.
Aileen: Where’s my list? Property development. I see loads of young women, actually a lot of teachers. I meet are wanting to switch from their careers into property development.
[00:30:00]
There’s loads of opportunities for women in that arena. On the tools there’s loads of different trades available.
Aileen: I think as well as a woman, there’s great opportunity to become senior quite quickly because. I know this ’cause I have two boys at home, myself and one daughter. Women are very good at organizing things and following processes, creating processes and following them. And I think that’s really important in the trades.
Aileen: I think. Management opportunities in construction, there’s loads of opportunities available. I think that’s probably where you find most women at the moment. But again, we’re still outnumbered by all the men. I think it has to start in school. It ha there has to be more opportunities available for young women and it shouldn’t be an, it shouldn’t be just a case of, oh, if you can’t succeed in these areas, then you go down this route.
Aileen: I think, like I said earlier, though, things are gonna really change. In this arena, when people start to realize there’s a lack of people and we’re never gonna have, we’re never gonna stop building.
[00:31:00]
Greg: No. Exactly. And and I think that’s a good point you just mentioned there, that you know, we are not just talking about women getting into trades here, we there, there’s all, you know, construction includes a number of professional services, like you said, from architects to qss to, you know, there’s a ton of project management.
Greg: There’s tons of areas that women could. Potentially get into, it doesn’t, you know, if you’re not, don’t feel like you are a good trades person or don’t want to, you know, do that hands-on stuff. Then there’s lots of opportunities still. So that, no, that’s that’s really good advice.
Greg: And one thing I will just say actually is obviously. You know, I coach a number of businesses and sometimes what you said about women being great organizers, sometimes the best businesses we coach are when the woman is actually looking after all the business side of the business and the husband might be out there and be great on site and organizing the site teams and the guys.
Greg: But sometimes it’s the women that have got the best business sense and the best organization sense. Sometimes they’re the most powerful partnership. Yeah, there’s, you know, lots of opportunities out there for sure. Felicity, if there was a teenage girl listening to this podcast, I dunno whether there will be to be honest, but if there was what advice would you give them if they were maybe looking to change careers?
[00:32:00]
Greg: They’re not happy with what they’re doing you know, would you advise them to change careers and get into construction? Now you’ve experienced it and now you’re a bit further along. What would you say to them?
Felicity: Definitely don’t hesitate. Just go for it. I actually do get a couple of messages on Instagram that they’re hairdressers and they wanna, you know, do something different.
Felicity: They see my videos and it’s so inspiring. That’s what I wanna do and best advice that I tell anyone is don’t give up. If you’ve got the passion for it and the drive for it and you want to do it, no one’s gonna tell you no but yourself. If that’s what you wanna do, go get it. The sky is your limit. I definitely recommend.
Felicity: The industry and I don’t know what to do, and I’m like, give it a go. There’s no harm in you trying. It’s good just to get out there, get creative, get handsy, you know, get just on board with it. I think that in, there’s so much to learn and grow and as I said before, doing your cert three to your cer, it’s a stepping stone in your industry.
[00:33:00]
Felicity: You can never be overqualified for anything if you wanna do your apprenticeship in carpentry and then electrician. Do your builders, you wanna be a supervisor, run a management business in the industry. It’s growth and that’s a stepping stone to make you grow even more as individual. So don’t give up and just go for it.
Greg: Yeah, that’s great. And I’d love to know Felicity, ’cause obviously you are gaining a bit of traction on social media, which is obviously where we, you know, first come across you. And that’s great. You know, I think it’s, you know, absolutely awesome. How are you get, how is the perception with you on social media and the feedback that you are getting from what you’re pushing here?
Greg: You know, because you are, I think you’re doing some amazing stuff for the industry, but I’d love to know sometimes, like we, we’ve. I find with social media, when people start becoming good on social media and they get a bit of a following, they start getting the hate stuff, don’t they? You know, the abuse and everything else online.
Greg: And often that’s a sign of actually you’re doing something right. But I’d love to know how you found it.
[00:34:00]
How have you found things on social media?
Felicity: As we were saying before, I think you have to be thick skin with really anything. It happens on site. Any industry, whether it’s the corporate world or whatever. I really block it out. When I first started, I was very like, oh my gosh, they’re saying this. And I would go through and read them. And yes, sometimes when you have a bit of a following, you wanna answer everyone’s messages because you’re giving them feedback back.
Felicity: And that’s what leaders do. You give feedback, you answer the questions that they want answers to. So sometimes it can be a little bit defeating reading the messages, but however. If there’s always gonna be [00:35:00] haters out there, you are physically never going to be able to please anyone. That’s just life.
Felicity: You’re gonna get keyboard warriors. It’s the way you take it on either one. You can let them walk all over you and you get mentally deteriorated from the bullying, I guess. Or you can pick yourself up and be like, you know what? You are making such a big difference and an impact to these people’s lives by you putting videos out on social media, whether it’s A-A-D-I-Y of how you put a door in or a handle or whatever you are giving advice.
Felicity: To people that need that, and that’s leadership there as well. So I really do block out the haters. I’m like, you know what? You think what you want? I’m out here living my best life, you know, giving the best advice I could to people who really want that advice.
Greg: Yeah, that’s a great way to be. I think that’s that, that’s the only way you can be online, isn’t it if you’re gonna succeed.
Greg: And I think that’s an awesome way of doing it. So look, I really appreciate your guys’ time on the podcast here, and we’re probably sort of coming to the end there.
[00:36:00]
So I just wanna wrap up with maybe some words of advice that you both have. Aileen, one word of advice for women that are in the industry or are looking to get into the industry, what would your words of wisdom be for them?
Aileen: The year I’ve had and knowingly working on my mindset, I think you can achieve anything if you believe that you can achieve it. And for me. Do whatever you have to do. Listen to podcasts, get a coach, but take action now. Go to those networking meetings on your own. You start to build up a huge network, and once you start to see other people being successful in something, it gives you such a drive and it makes you wanna do it.
Aileen: And then you can you actually learn. There’s so many different career paths out there and there’s loads of people doing different things. It really sets your passion, you know, for what you wanna do. So I think the most important thing is. Mindset. Say to yourself, I can do it and I can achieve it.
Aileen: Take action and go for it.
Greg: Love that. Yeah, that’s great. How about yourself, Felicity? What advice would you give to women that are in the industry or looking to get into it?
[00:37:00]
Felicity: That was a really good response as well. Absolutely. Love that. I’m the exact same. If you want, as I said before, if you wanna do something, go do it.
Felicity: No one’s gonna tell you no other than yourself. I really think we’ve got a big support system that we’re. Still growing, the meetings, the networking, everything. And all it takes is for you to, I guess, get inspiration off that person and be like, oh my gosh. And that’s exactly why I started my apprenticeship young.
Felicity: I wanted to break the stereotype of it all and be like, you know what? I’m gonna do this. I haven’t. Seen this complete the builders at a very young age because I wanna do it. I haven’t seen it. If I can do it and be a representing and an example in the industry that anything’s possible, go for gold.
Felicity: You can do it too. I’m in walk-in example. If I can do it, you can do it.
[00:38:00]
Greg: Love it. That’s. Great. Okay. Let’s let’s talk about the men out there. So one word of advice, Aileen, for the men out there who maybe need to create a better culture what advice would you give to the men?
Aileen: I think. If you are working on sites in the trades, the people that you are working with, especially the young people, you know, you’ve got such a chance to leave a legacy behind.
Aileen: You’ve got all this knowledge, all this experience, and you were young once and I think. Make sure that you give all your time and all your effort to support young people on site. We had a young apprentice start recently, and my first question was, how is it going? How, you know, how have the lads treated him?
Aileen: And the feedback’s been amazing. They love him, you know, they really wanted to take him under their wing, and they really want to support him. And that makes me feel really happy and proud. And I think if you know, if you are already working in this industry in any capacity.
[00:39:00]
Aileen: Although I do think it’s one of the most supportive industries you know, if I’m looking at property development and I’m asking for help, I’ve been so supported in this industry by men and by women. So I think the most important thing is remember. Remember to be nice on the way up because you’re never gonna know who you’re gonna need on the way down.
Aileen: Never caught ties with anyone. If you’ve left a company, leave on good terms. Always make sure that you leave a legacy of who you are. And remember you were young ones, so
Greg: yeah,
Aileen: it’s tough.
Greg: Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. That’s good advice. Felicity any word of advice for men out there?
Felicity: That’s a really good answer too. Oh my goodness me. I guess at the end of the day, you are gonna have a female in your family, whether it’s your mother, your sister, your auntie, your niece, your cousin, or whatnot. Would you talk badly to them? Not really in most circumstances. So why is it okay to talk bad to men and women on site?
[00:40:00]
Felicity: We are trying to make a healthy, exclusive environment, and I think the way you talk to people. Should be the way you wanna get treated. So it needs to be what? It needs to be reciprocated. You treat them with respect. Hopefully they’ll treat you with respect. So I think the world’s changing. We’re in 2025.
Felicity: We are changing, we’re evolving, we’re growing. I think people who wanna stay in their various a man’s zone thing, I think you’ve got great skillset. Wake up, pass your skillset onto the next generation. You can leave knowing that you’ve done a great job teaching the next generation your skills.
Greg: Love that.
Greg: Yeah. Quo in the golden rule from Jesus Christ himself there. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Excellent. Good stuff. Alright, I love it. Really appreciate your time on the podcast today, guys. If listeners want to find out more about what you two are up to where could they find you? So Felicity, just give us a little bit of a plug of where’s the best channel they can find you on.
Felicity: Aw, thanks. I’m sorry. Yeah, literally just on my Instagram, Sydney builder chick.
[00:41:00]
You can message me if you need anything. Also, with my TikTok and my Facebook, it’s all the exact same Sydney builder chick.
Greg: Awesome. And Aileen, how will they find you?
Aileen: Now, I’m not as exciting as Felicity online, but I have a LinkedIn page, bit boring, showing my age here.
Aileen: Aileen Andrews Andrews Construction Limited is my LinkedIn. And then Andrew’s Construction Limited is our Instagram face. Page not face. Yeah, but yeah, I’m not I’m not so big out there on socials, you know, putting my face out there. But I need to do a bit more of that. Felicity, you’re inspiring me.
Aileen: I’ve had a look at some.
Felicity: Thank you. I’m inspired.
Aileen: Words of wisdom
Felicity: over here.
Aileen: Yeah, this is it. I’m double your age, so I’m like, oh. And you know what you were saying about being in school and stuff. It really rang true to me because you know, in school you’re very much put in a box, this set, that’s it.
Aileen: Are you good at maths? Good at English. It’s so depressing. And actually you’re good at maths in English now.
[00:42:00]
That ain’t going to get you anywhere in life. Definitely, it’s an even playing field out there, I think with AI coming in, and you’re gonna have to really be a bit more creative in how you become successful in your career and resilience mindset, everything that you’ve got.
Aileen: Thank you. Oh
Greg: god.
Greg: Love it. No that’s awesome.
Aileen: It looks like I’m in Spain here with the sun shining in my face.
Greg: No, that was great. You’ve both you’ve both inspired me, I think. It’s, yeah, been a really awesome podcast. I’ve really enjoyed it actually. And I think this is gonna be really inspiring for any women out there listening and the men out there listening too, that want to employ women or partner with women or want their partner that they’re with to get in, involved in their current business.
Greg: I think there’s lots of opportunities for women who are listening to this, yeah. Really awesome. And I thank you for all the time that you give us today. And I just want this podcast to really be for everyone just to think about, really how women think differently on a lot of things.
[00:43:00]
Greg: And that’s for the good. You know, there’s they bring it different thinking, different communication styles, different leadership styles. And that’s important. And we want that. And I think it’s really powerful to embrace that in the industry. So thank you both for coming on and giving us your time today.
Greg: And wish you all the best in your business. Catch you all soon.